tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2606399196932045640.post3091658798200288266..comments2024-01-25T09:26:15.915-05:00Comments on Dixie Yid: How to Tell If a Niggun Is Rooted in Holiness or the OppositeDixieYid (يهودي جنوبي)http://www.blogger.com/profile/03713423988723533390noreply@blogger.comBlogger12125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2606399196932045640.post-10391308951514163052009-08-19T13:10:17.778-04:002009-08-19T13:10:17.778-04:00Neil - I don't know where you got that from. I...Neil - I don't know where you got that from. In any case, there are many Chassidic stories -- of the Baal Shem, R. Isaac Kaliver, the <br />Chabad Rebbes, the Divrei Yisrael of Modzitz -- about hearing songs davka from goyim & bringing them into Kedusha. However, not everyone can do that; certainly being a Chassidic Rebbe helps!yitzhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08523302947845887661noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2606399196932045640.post-11496078661173993042009-08-19T10:07:35.878-04:002009-08-19T10:07:35.878-04:00Maybe music appreciation needs to be taught in eve...Maybe music appreciation needs to be taught in every day school and cheder. It's easy to grow up hearing very little inspirational Jewish music to use as a yardstick to measure quasi-Jewish popcrud against.Bob Millernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2606399196932045640.post-8638197908039715622009-08-19T08:08:26.456-04:002009-08-19T08:08:26.456-04:00"There is the famous story of the Baal Shem i..."There is the famous story of the Baal Shem in the forest rescuing a Beis HaMikdash niggun from a folk whistle of a peasant. Niggunim were also dispersed amongst the goyim. Yes, they may be rooted in kedushah."<br /><br />True, however it's likely that the peasant was Jewish.Neil Harrishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12797772082427806345noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2606399196932045640.post-75742702320282883302009-08-19T07:56:31.731-04:002009-08-19T07:56:31.731-04:00Yitz, thanks for the credit info. I changed it. An...Yitz, thanks for the credit info. I changed it. And no, I don't think that's R. Brazil.DixieYid (يهودي جنوبي)https://www.blogger.com/profile/03713423988723533390noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2606399196932045640.post-26056987989507873002009-08-19T05:49:40.873-04:002009-08-19T05:49:40.873-04:00Oh, & I meant to ask: is that R. Shmuel Brazil...Oh, & I meant to ask: is that R. Shmuel Brazil on the right in the picture? It looks like him, but because of the action shot, I'm not sure...yitzhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08523302947845887661noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2606399196932045640.post-35588078509495627762009-08-19T05:46:54.223-04:002009-08-19T05:46:54.223-04:00Firstly, Dix, thanks for the acknowledgement, alth...Firstly, Dix, thanks for the acknowledgement, although the <a href="http://matzav.com/rav-brazil-how-to-know-if-a-song-is-rooted-in-kedushah/" rel="nofollow">original Matzav post</a> should also have been credited.<br /><br />Secondly, if one looks at Matis' comment on the Matzav site, you will find that this criteria is far from an absolute one:<br />"Simanim are just that, simanim; they’re powerful elements, but not absolute indicators. There’s a huge cheshbon - like lehavdil when doctors say smoking causes cancer, yet we all know people who smoked and lived to 90. It’s an expression of power and intensity of the inyan, not an absolute mathematical formula."<br /><br />As to Gad Frenkel, well, I have addressed this many times on my site, Ayein Sham...yitzhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08523302947845887661noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2606399196932045640.post-86066547899514285742009-08-19T04:28:00.251-04:002009-08-19T04:28:00.251-04:00I was just going to post a thank you to Rav Brazil...I was just going to post a thank you to Rav Brazil, but then I saw all these interesting comments.Reb Bob raises some good points. I'm notpersonally convinced of the "looking at feet is unholy" theory. Even if true, I think it could promote internal discord at a simchah and should not bethought about at that time. <br />One thing does need to be fixed, however. Jews lead to the right in kedushah since it represents rachamim. Many of the great fast step songs lead to the left. (Also check your shirt and jacket buttons and how you fold your arms!). Quite a few times I have reversed the group to the right and the agressive fastness disappears (maybe due to the unfamiliarity of the new direction or maybe because...)<br />In response to Gad Frenkel: There is the famous story of the Baal Shem in the forest rescuing a Beis HaMikdash niggun from a folk whistle of a peasant. Niggunim were also dispersed amongst the goyim. Yes, they may be rooted in kedushah.Likutei Halachoshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05144034678032638028noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2606399196932045640.post-8555053834221102402009-08-18T12:11:59.835-04:002009-08-18T12:11:59.835-04:00I guess that we're fortunate that all of the f...I guess that we're fortunate that all of the folk tunes, drinking songs, marches and waltzes that have been incorporated into Jewish music over the past hundreds (thousands?) of years were all rooted in Kedusha.gad frenkelnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2606399196932045640.post-4534806673362079592009-08-18T03:43:59.403-04:002009-08-18T03:43:59.403-04:00There was actually an article on how unholy music ...There was actually an article on how unholy music entered the Yeshivish world featured in <a href="http://chareidi.shemayisrael.com/archives5764/noach/NCH64features.htm" rel="nofollow">Dei'ah VeDibur</a> <a href="http://chareidi.shemayisrael.com/archives5764/vayera/VYR64features.htm" rel="nofollow">with a followup here.</a><br />Whether or not you entirely agree with the hashkafa presented, which is decidedly Litvish, it is a very good read, if a bit long. I would recommend it as a starting point, for understanding the words of the OP. <br /><br />Ultimately music, sound for that matter is spiritual by nature. Many a dictator has tried to control his people by controlling their music, realizing that music has the ability to influence the masses far greater than any other medium on account of it touch the spiritual nature of a person.Rabbi Michael Tzadokhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02307256653501750003noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2606399196932045640.post-60294021597271577432009-08-17T15:41:05.577-04:002009-08-17T15:41:05.577-04:00Well they do play "YO-YA" at frum weddin...Well they do play "YO-YA" at frum weddings. I even heard it (w/o words) at a Chasidish chasunah one time!DixieYid (يهودي جنوبي)https://www.blogger.com/profile/03713423988723533390noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2606399196932045640.post-34786324160577806292009-08-17T15:36:26.393-04:002009-08-17T15:36:26.393-04:00I'm trying to understand this piece, which cou...I'm trying to understand this piece, which could easily be true, but raises questions. There is an assumption that bochurim dance to both holy and unholy music, and that the holy music causes them to move or position themselves differently.<br />So...who exactly gave the OK to play unholy music for the bochurim to begin with? Do we know it's unholy from its content or only from the response? If from the response, how do we know the response is caused by the music's unholiness and no other factor?Bob Millernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2606399196932045640.post-70488262110259892502009-08-17T15:29:50.553-04:002009-08-17T15:29:50.553-04:00Beautiful. Thank you!Beautiful. Thank you!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com