Tuesday, December 30, 2008

Yeshu Hanotzri's Birth: What's the Source For This Version of the Story?

I once saw a modern sefer that had a whole story about Yeshu's birth. It said that his mother, Miriam, was an arusa to a young talmid chacham named Rav Yochanan (not that Rav Yochanan). A not-so-nice-guy, named Yosef, liked her also and snuck into her house at night. He pretended to be Rav Yochanan and he convinced her that the halacha is that one is allowed to have biah with one's arusa. They did this and Yeshu was conceived. Since she was an arusa, he was a mamzer. I don't think this ma'aseh is in the gemara and I don't know what this sefer's source was. And I can't track down the person who showed it to me. Does anyone know what the source for this ma'aseh is and if it's legitimate?

-Dixie Yid

(Picture courtesy of amazon.com)

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Anarchist Chossid said...

Toldos Yeshu, I think.

It’s Jewish folklore. The later part of it talks about him stealing the Name, writing it down on a parchment and concealing under his skin — and then becoming a superman.

I think parts of it are loosely based on some statements in Gemara, but for the most part it’s folklore.

yaak said...

here - but I don't endorse the site.

DixieYid (يهودي جنوبي) said...

Okay, so it sounds like y'all agree that that was the source I saw. But it also sounds like it may be true, or there may be little or no truth to it. But there's no way to know either way.

Thank you very much for the source!

-Dixie Yid

Anonymous said...

If you want some real Info about this topic Listen to Rabbi Willig's Shiur on Strangely Enought the Upcoming Fast Asarh Bt'eves besides for being intresting also a great message

DixieYid (يهودي جنوبي) said...

what do you mean "real info"? What topic is Rav Willig addressing?

-Dixie Yid

Anonymous said...

Where is the shiur?

Anonymous said...

Other religon and the early interaction with Yiddishkiet
its here

Anonymous said...

Toldos Yeshu, one version is in Otsar Hmidrashim (Eisenstein), also http://ccat.sas.upenn.edu/humm/Topics/JewishJesus/toledoth.html.

A related post, here: http://www.avakesh.com/2006/12/the_fast_of_the.html

in the vanguard said...

It's not for naught the right pieces of gemorah had been censored, in that they knew what they were censoring. Yeshu is the acronym for ימח שמו וזכרו and for certain that too is not coincidental. Yoshkele and his infamous mom are hinted in the Torah, as per the Ba'al Haturim (Devarim 13:2). Now as for that story of Yossele outmaneuvering his buddy Yochanan and convincing her, sounds like the story of Leah and Yaakov, or of Yishai and his wife (from which Dovid was conceived), but that's where the resemblance ends because the latter were outright Tzadikkim whereas the pair of your story were anything but - so they could hardly have fooled each other. Only in total humility can such a switch be consummated, and especially it cannot be done if persuading the partner is involved, in which case he Yossele could hardly have resembled the friend he tried to cheat. Looks to me like Yoshkele was a pedigreed mamzor.