Showing posts sorted by relevance for query pre-conversion. Sort by date Show all posts
Showing posts sorted by relevance for query pre-conversion. Sort by date Show all posts

Thursday, October 30, 2008

Do Pre-Conversion Gerim Have a Jewish Soul Hidden in a Gentile Body?


About a year before I converted, I was talking to a local educator back in Dixie, and I asked him, "I feel Jewish already. Could it be that I already have a Jewish soul, but that it is just in a non-Jewish body right now?" He answered me that he didn't think so, but that when a person converts, he gets a new Jewish neshama.

A Simple Jew pointed me toward an interesting footnote (Page 2, footnote 6) in the English Translation of Sefer Baal Shem Tov on Parshas Lech Lecha AVAILABLE HERE, which was quoting a piece in the Degel Machaneh Ephraim. The translator of the sefer and author of the footnotes, Rabbi Eliezer Shore, wrote that "before their [converts') conversion, their souls are trapped in a gentile body." ***

This seems to be a source for the idea that Gerim have a Jewish soul before they convert, but that it is hidden, or trapped, in a gentile body until that point. Does anyone out there know if this is a chidush or is it an accepted principal? Personally, I felt that this was true before my conversion, but hey, what do I know about the deeper spiritual aspects of reality!? Thanks for any insights!

UPDATE 10/31/08: See my follow up post with more detials on the nature of the non-Jewish soul (both preceeding conversion and not).

-Dixie Yid

*** ASJ found the Sefer Baal Shem Tov's source online. The Degel Machaneh Ephraim that it quoted is available HERE, D"H "Oh Yomar."

(Picture courtesy of dkimages)

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Friday, October 31, 2008

Pre-Conversion Soul Status - Continued -


Hashgacha Pratis is awesome. You may recall yesterday's discussion about the status of a Ger's soul before conversion. One comment in particular, made by Alexander, from the V = I·R blog, quoted an idea in Lessons in Tanya (Ch. 1), that “[i]t should be noted that among the nations of the world there are also to be found those whose souls are derived from kelipat nogah [just like Jewish nefesh ha’bahamis]. Called ‘the pious ones of the nations of the world’, these righteous individuals are benevolent not out of selfish motives but out of a genuine concern for their fellow.”

I found this particularly interesting because it seemed to contradict the teachings of the Gemara Bava Basra 10b on the pasuk in Mishlei 14:34 which says , "וחסד לאומים חטאת כל צדקה וחסד שאומות <עובדי כוכבים> {העולם} עושין חטא הוא להן שאינם עושין אלא להתגדל בו ." "[And the verse,] 'the kindness of the nations is a sin' means that all of the charity and kindness that the nations do is a sin because they only do it for the prestige."

The line in Lessons in Tanya, quoted above, was commenting on the first chapter of Tanya where the Alter Rebbe says the following in regard to this topic:

כי בישראל נפש זו דקליפה היא מקליפ' נוגה שיש בה ג"כ טוב ... משא"כ נפשות אומות עובדי גלולים הן משאר קליפות טמאות שאין בהן טוב כלל כמ"ש בע"ח שער מ"ט פ"ג וכל טיבו דעבדין האומות עובדי גלולים לגרמייהו עבדין וכדאיתא בגמרא ע"פ וחסד לאומים חטאת שכל צדקה וחסד שאומות עובדי גלולים עושין אינן אלא להתייהר

In the Jewish people, this soul [the animalistic soul] comes from Klipas Nogah, which also has some good... This is not the case with the souls of the nations, [whose animalistic souls] come from Sha'ar Klipos temeos, which have no good in them at all, as it says in Eitz Chaim, 49th Gate, 3rd chapter, 'and all good things that the nations do, they do for their own sake, as it says in the Gemara [referenced above] on the verse 'And the kindness of the nations is a sin,' that the nations act, but only to aggrandize themselves.

Amazingly, this morning, only the day after this whole discussion about this topic that we had yesterday, I went to a shiur by my rebbe on Mevo Hashe'arim (found at the end of Hachsharas Ha'avreichim, by Reb Klonymous Kalman Shapiro, the holy Aish Kodesh. On page 243 (I think), he was discussing this exact topic in a footnote! I used the opportunity to as my rebbe the question I had based on this seeming contradiction between what the Lessons in Tanya said (presumably in the name of the Lubavitcher Rebbe, zt"l) and what the Tanya its self brought down from the Gemara and sefer Eitz Chaim.

I asked him, "I heard in the name of the Lubavitcher Rebbe that there are exceptions to the general rule, and that there are some goyim whose nefesh habahamis comes from Klipas Nogah, and that they are able to do pure chesed for the sake of others. Did I misunderstand what I heard?"

He answered that no, I did not misunderstand. But that this was a major topic in Kabbalah and that he wasn't capable, nor were we, without that background, capable of understanding the inyan properly right now. But as a rosh perek, headline, he said that the Lubavitcher Rebbe was speaking with regard to something found in the Kisvei Ari z"l, who brought down that there are indeed individuals from certain nations, who have a certain kind of relationship with Klal Yisroel, and Goyim who will become Gerim, who are outside the regular category of a goy, and therefore have a nefesh habahamis rooted in Klipas Nogah, like a Yisroel. He said that lu yitzuyar, it is as if they are not totally goyim (though they aren't Jewish either, obviously).

I found it interesting that this came up right after our whole discussion yesterday. Thanks Yitz and Alexander especially for your comments, and I hope this post clarifies that one point at least from the discussion.

Gut Shabbos, and if you live within driving distance of the Young Israel of Lawrence-Cedarhurst, (corner of Broadway and Cedar Ave. in Cedarhurst), that you won't want to miss the Piaczena Hillulah with Rav Weinberger and Yosef Karduner at 8:30 this Motzoi Shabbos ($10 suggested donation & there is a women's section)!

-Dixie Yid

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