I am happy to present Rebbetzin Yehudis Golshevsky's weekly shiur in Breslov Chassidus for Women. This week she discussed teachings of Breslov Chassidus on the Tikun of Rebbe Shimon Bar Yochai in preperation for Lag B'Omer.
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7 comments:
Why shouldn't men listen to this? There is no problem of kol isha from talking. Men can def. listen to a woman teach Torah. There is only an issue if men are looking at a woman as she teaches, potential problem of shemiras einayim. But listening without looking is not a problem.
As machmir as I am, I would have to agree.
Guys, I forwarded your comments to Rebb. Golshevksy, but she' in Meron so it may be a day or two before she responds.
As she answered another commenter in a different post, I put the "for women only" caveat in Rebb. Golshevsky's shiurim that I post at hear request. I don't think she's claiming that it's halacha for a man not to listen to her teach Torah, but that she simply doesn't feel comfortable. I would point out that the Gemara in Kiddushin even says "kol b'isha erva" about her speaking voice. But I think that it's more of a personal preference that we should honor out of derech eretz, not as a chumra.
The Rashba in Berachos 24b says that the kol isha you refer to in Kiddushin 70a is only within a live conversation that could lead to intimacy, obviously not applicable to listening to a shiur from this blog. Anyway, we don't paskin the gemara in Kiddushin. The Shulchan Aruch rules that kol isha only applies to singing.
Dixie Yid is right that I'm not claiming that this is a halachic obligation; I am asking men not to listen to the shiur out of derech eretz. Although I received a psak a long time ago that I can teach mixed groups for kiruv provided there is no mixed seating, it is not ideal.
I'm really not sure why this is so hard to understand. There are no lack of good shiurim for men on Rebbe Nachman's Torah, but almost nothing for women. Men don't need to hear me, they have their own teachers. Women appreciate hearing the lessons from a woman's perspective. The internet is a way to get the classes to women who want to hear them, and I ask that they go to where they are needed only. Just as I wouldn't invite men to hear me speak even if I was teaching from behind a curtain, I ask that the shiurim not be listened to by men.
What is so hard to grasp here? Do people really not understand that it is simply immodest for the sound of my teaching to be ringing around the head of some man? That we are responsible, to whatever extent that we have the ability to control it, for the broader effects of what we transmit visually, verbally, however, to the wide world? I know that there are people who object to Rav Yosi D'min Yokras, "Shuvi l'afreich v'lo yikashlu beich bnei adam," (Taanis 24a) and although he was extreme, there is an important lesson there. If people would like to think I am farfrumt, that's fine.
I disagree that there is no intimacy from speech that is not a live conversation--everything that extends from us and touches others is a form of intimacy. If a shiur moves a person, this is a sign of spiritual contact. I would like to limit that contact to women if I can.
And as far as the halachah is concerned, there are those who hold that there is reason for stringency:
ויש לציין כי הגם שלא מצינו לאסור אלא קול זמר, ולא קול דיבור גרידא, מכל מקום דיבור שעלול להיות בו נעימה כגון נאום לרבים, וכן בשאר כל מיני אופני דיבור שלא בדרך הרגיל, אשר עלולים למשוך אוזן השומע לנעימות והנאה, אסור לאנשים לשמוע, וכדין זמר לכל דבר וענין, ואפילו בדיבור בקול פשוט, אם כוונת האיש ליהנות מדיבורה אסור.
פסקי תשובות ע"ה, עמ' תר"ח-תר"ט
"Do people really not understand that it is simply immodest for the sound of my teaching to be ringing around the head of some man?"
What is immodest about hearing someone, in this case a woman, teach Torah? If a man thinks that hearing a woman teach Torah can cause him hirhurim then he must stop, but the decision and awareness should be the man's. It is not the responsibility of the woman who is giving the shiur which is just audio. Even the machmir tilting shitos Piskei Teshuvos you cite state that it depends if the man is getting inappropriate hana'ah from hearing the voice. That is something that only the man can know.
I understand you saying that you recommend that men do not listen but beyond that if a man feels he gains from it Torah wise, why make him feel guilty for listening?
Anonymous: Not trying to make anyone feel guilty. I follow the more stringent opinion, especially since there are other issues here that cannot be discussed online since they are areas of eidelkeit that are hard to explain.
B'kitzur, there are other issues here than a superficial view would allow for. It is inappropriate, and perhaps even detrimental, for a man to enter into a mashpiah/mushpa relationship with a woman who is not his wife or close relative. There enough men teaching Torah, it is unnecessary for a man to seek out a woman teacher when there is such an abundance of men from whom he can learn.
And sometimes I mention subjects that I would not discuss in mixed company and which would be a lack of tznius l'kulei almah if a man were present.
Unfortunately, I feel that the whole discussion is rooted in lack of tznius. It is frustrating, because to me this is so obvious it hardly bears a further thought. Before the shiurim were first posted, this issue was discussed. It was decided that it is sufficient to append a statement that the classes are only for women, but I will admit that the possibility of the shiurim going to a wider audience than intended was originally a deterrent. But, "Eis la'asos laHashem, hefeiru Torasecha."
A great part of tznius is a sensitivity to subtleties, and an open discussion of them can descend into a mockery of the entire subject. And is also beyond the scope of comments to a blog post.
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